Hello all, unfortunately, the stay at home and congregation restrictions continue. As a consequence, the July PBA meeting is cancelled. Things were to be eased this week, but as you know the governor scaled back the anticipated business and public gathering openings. Hopefully things will improve next month.
Follow up to the ZOOM on-line get together suggested by Mike Amaral. I appreciate the offer, but the response was not there.
A reminder, if you are aware of a member not receiving the on-line Farsider, please provide them with the link so they may subscribe at https://www.sjpba.net.
I provided Leroy with the names of the July member’s birthday celebrants; best wishes to you!
Lastly, I would like to acknowledge Leroy for cobbling an alternative on-line chat forum:
In closing, I want to express my appreciation for your service to the City during your tenures as a San Jose Police Officer. You all had storied careers in your own right, working in an honorable profession; please do not let the state of current affairs tarnish the badge you all wore while on the job.
Stay safe out there and hope to see you soon.
PS: JUST IN
Becerra, Manny (Deceased)
Keffer, Francis Sr. (Deceased)
Lowry, Mike (Deceased)
Shannon, Clarence (Deceased)
Windisch, Steve Jr.
Ernie suggested a few articles highlighting San Jose
Racism scandal: Will history repeat itself?
SAN JOSE POLICE DEPARTMENT Revelation of bigoted posts by officers evokes an earlier case By Robert Salonga email@example.com SAN JOSE >> As the San Jose Police Department reels in scandal after the emergence of officers’ bigoted and anti-Muslim social media comments, it has evoked the memory of a notorious incident when another San Jose officer was fired for making offensive remarks directed at Black Lives Matter supporters. In that case, the officer got his job back in arbitration and he remains with the department, albeit in administrative duty. But in the new scandal – which has resulted in four active SJPD officers getting benched and the FBI being summoned to help investigate – there is a groundswell from civil rights advocates and public officials demanding that the outcome be different this time around. “The difference with these posts surfacing now is that that there’s a larger context that has shifted the way people understand these issues,” said Raj Jayadev, director of Silicon Valley De-Bug, referring to the national police reform movement stemming from the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. “The movement is more intense, and burning at a level that will give it staying power. I have confidence in the fact the community is not going to let this slide.” Public calls for the firing of the officers continued to pour in Monday following the revelation of the Facebook posts on Medium Friday by an anonymous blogger, who identified as the partner of a currentSJPD officer. The incriminating article featured screenshots of members of the now-deactivated 10-7ODSJ Facebook group – made up mostly of active and retired SJPD officers – sharing racist comments, including about the Black Lives Matter movement and an image the blog author argues equates Muslims with terrorists. One of the officers put on leave wrote that “black lives don’t really matter” while responding to a separate public post about shootings in Chicago. Another officer was revealed to have created a commemorative coin referring to San Jose police district L, made up largely of Latino and Vietnamese people, as “Stinkin’ Lincoln.” Council member Sylvia Arenas called the comments “poisonous” and that “their disparagement of our neighborhoods show intolerance of our diversity and complete disregard of the needs of our community.” Her council colleague Lan Diep called the remarks “disqualifying” and that “no one who disdains a community should be allowed to protect it. Their hate has put San Jose in the national spotlight in the worst possible way.”Police Chief Eddie Garcia, Mayor Sam Liccardo and San Jose Police Officers’ Association President Paul Kelly all swiftly condemned the remarks, with Kelly adding that the implicated officers will not be supported by the union. Monday, state Sen. Nancy Skinner, D- Berkeley, announced the introduction of a bill that would expand public access to police disciplinary records to include “records involving officers who have engaged in racist, homophobic or anti- Semitic behavior, or actions against any other protected class.” Santa Clara County Public Defender Molly O’Neal said her office is “enraged” by the officers bigoted comments and vowed to review their criminal cases — a promise similar to one made by the District Attorney’s Office on Friday. “We will examine every case any one of the officers touched, speak to clients who were arrested by them and seek reversal for any conviction obtained through their policing,” O’Neal said. “ We are in the process of identifying cases that involved those officers, and we will certainly look for any other like-minded racists acting in concert with them.” The city’s Office of the Independent Police Auditor has received about 20 complaints about the officers’ Facebook comments, which does not include complaints made directly to the city or Police Department. Police auditor Shivaun Nurre said that was an uptick given that her staff typically receives 20- 30 complaints in a month, with the exception of late May and early June, when the office received hundreds of complaints about police aggression at the downtown George Floyd protests. But there was also substantial outcry in the 2014 case of Officer Phillip White. While engaging with Twitter critics of his comments criticizing Black Lives Matter demonstrations, he wrote: “ Threaten me or my family and I will use my God given and law appointed right and duty to kill you. #CopsLivesMatter” and “ By the way, if anyone feels they can’t breathe or their lives matter, I’ll be at the movies tonight, off duty, carrying my gun.” White was fired, but in opposition to the city disciplinary process that allows unaccountable arbitrators to reverse termination decisions of the chief.” Garcia reiterated that “ if these officers are found culpable, this will be in the realm of termination or significant suspension,” and that “ this is not a suspension case for some of those comments.” He also said he hopes that if terminations are decided, they will be upheld, or that an arbitrator’s decision is held up to rigorous public scrutiny, which he said doesn’t currently happen.Deputy arrested on suspicion of smuggling meth into Elmwood jail. SOUTH BAYBy Jason Green firstname.lastname@example.org MILPITAS >> Authorities on Tuesday arrested a Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office correctional deputy on suspicion of smuggling methamphetamine into the Elmwood Correctional Facility. The arrest capped an “extensive, two-month investigation” into the correctional deputy, identified as 35-year-old Antioch resident Mayra Rios, the sheriff’s office said in a news release. Detectives launched the investigation after receiving information that Rios was involved in smuggling the drug into the Milpitas jail on behalf of in- mates. Rios, who was arrested in Pleasanton, has been placed on administrative leave, said Sheriff’s Office spokeswoman Jessica Gabaldon. Additional information, including how long Rios was employed by the Sheriff’s Office, was not immediately available Tuesday. Detectives sought authorization for a higher bail amount from a magistrate, citing Rios’ access to funds, her former position of authority and influence, and potential flight risk, according to the Sheriff’s Office. Rios remains in custody at the Main Jail in San Jose on $1 million bail. Contact Jason Green at 408-920-5006.Officer: Racism scandal nothing new ANTI-MUSLIM FACEBOOK POSTSLebanese American who sued SJPD in 2018 over harassment says he’s surprised only by the fallout. By Robert Salonga email@example.com The surfacing of racist and anti-Muslim Facebook posts by active and retired San Jose police officers this past weekend was not by itself a shock to Officer Nabil Haidar. What surprised him was the near immediate condemnation by public leaders, including the police chief. Haidar, who is on medical leave, said he remembered thinking: Where was that when he objected to his own anti-Muslim harassment in the same police department? “This is what I have been saying all along,” he said in an interview. Instead, the department “refused to believe me, (and) only en- abled and empowered this online racism and Islamophobia.” The Lebanese American officer sued the department in 2018, alleging he was the target of anti-Muslim remarks and insults that escalated after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He asserts that the discriminatory comments associated him with the terrorist group ISIS, the Taliban and car bombings and that he was referred to with slurs including “suicide bomber,” “bin Laden” and “sleeper cell.” In his lawsuit, which is still making its way through Santa Clara County Superior Court, Haidar calls particular attention to a November 2017 police briefing when a captain was recognizing veterans in the room and a sergeant allegedly said, “Captain, you forgot to mention Nabil. He is an ISIS veteran. He was with ISIS for two years.” “The officers who harassed me are still walking the streets,” Haidar said. “What’s the difference between them and what is happening now?” What is happening now is fallout from an article posted on Medium on June 26 by an anonymous blogger who identified as the partner of a current SJPD officer and posted screenshots of comments by members of the deactivated 10-7ODSJ Facebook group – made up of active and retired SJPD officers – sharing racist comments, including about the Black Lives Matter movement and an image the blog author argues equates Muslims with terrorists. In one public post, an active officer who subscribed to the group wrote “black lives don’t really matter” while commenting about shootings in Chicago, and while responding to a thread about a Muslim woman whose hijab was pulled off by a Ventura County Sheriff’s Office deputy, the officer wrote, “Hell, I would have pulled it over her face.” A post by a retired officer suggested using hijabs as nooses. Four officers who were outed in the Medium article have been placed on leave pending a department investigation that the FBI has been called in to assist. The department responded to Haidar’s new comments about the discrimination he says he faced first by parsing it out from the Facebook posts. Officers who worked with Haidar – speaking on condition of anonymity to avoid legal retaliation – joined police officials in strongly objecting to his account of alleged harassment, and said that Haidar had long made deprecating jokes about himself and terrorism, and that he would similarly joke about colleagues. At the time Haidar filed an initial claim with the city in May 2018, some inside the department contended that Haidar was retaliating to his being disciplined in 2017 after he was found to have used “several unflattering racial stereotypes” while responding to a police call involving a Vietnamese woman. The connection of Haidar to this case, which was reported in an annual report by the city’s independent police auditor that did not identify the officer, is the basis of an allegation in Haidar’s lawsuit that confidential personnel information was leaked to undercut his discrimination claim. Chief Eddie Garcia took issue with Haidar’s assertion that the SJPD did not act on his complaint. “It wasn’t swept under the rug. It was investigated thoroughly and individuals received significant discipline,” Garcia said, before citing personnel privacy restrictions in refraining from specifying who and how they were punished. “We took a lot of action then, and we’re going to take a lot of action this time.” Garcia, who met with the South Bay Islamic Association last week, welcomes an offer from the San Josebased Islamic Networks Group to conduct antiIslamophobia training for officers. Adnan Rasheed, a board member for the SBIA, credited the department for mosque visits and cultural sensitivity training but was critical of the benched officers who “acted in disrespectful, ignorant and racist ways.” “Just as we Muslims have always been so appreciative and fortunate to have the support and friendship of many of the officers from SJPD, to have them stand up for us, defend us many of us intend to do the same for the department,” Rasheed wrote in an email, saying he was speaking for himself and not the association. “Because not all officers are murderers, racists or bigots as not all Muslims are terrorists.” Zahra Billoo, executive director for the Bay Area chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said authorities’ swift rebuke of the Facebook posts was compelling and reassuring, but she emphasized that the scandal raised myriad questions that won’t be easily answered and that patience will wear thin just as swiftly.
“ I’ve voiced my frustration for years that a chief’s decision to fire an officer for cause should be made more difficult to overturn,” he said. “I’m not saying get rid of due process for officers. I’m saying it needs to be transparent, because the community needs to know the Police Department tried what it could.” But for Jayadev and William Armaline, director of the San Jose State University Human Rights Institute, changes at SJPD have to go beyond the firing of individual officers. “ That’s just the lowhanging fruit. Should these cops be fired? That’s a nobrainer. If an institution wants to stay legitimate, you have to fire them,” Armaline said. “ We have to recognize at this point that this is not the exception. There is no agency where this has not been an issue. It’s not just bad apples. “ We see this everywhere,” he added. “I don’t think for a second that just getting rid of these four guys will solve it. These are the conversations to start having.” Staff writer Maggie Angst contributed to this report. Contact Robert Salonga at 408- 920- 5002.State bill would let officers be decertified California is currently one of only 5 states without that authorityPOLICE REFORM By David DeBolt firstname.lastname@example.org As protesters nationwide demand police reform, California lawmakers this week introduced bills to strip problem police officers of their badges and better equip police agencies from hiring officers with a checkered past. State Sen. Steven Bradford, DGardena, introduced SB73 1, which would create a process for the state to decertify law enforcement officers convicted of certain crimes or terminated for misconduct. Currently, California is one of five states without the authority to take away an officer’s badge for crimes and serious misconduct. “This is an important moment for the country as well as for California. Our criminal justice system must be fundamentally built with equity and accountability in mind,” Bradford said in a statement on the bill. “It is unacceptable that a cycle of unanswered injustices exists, where officers fired for misconduct are rehired by another department, and very few are ever held accountable.” Bradford, a Los Angeles County Democrat, has named the bill the Kenneth Ross Jr. Police Decertification Act of 2020. A Gardena police officer with a history of shootings shot and killed Ross in 2018. Ross, an unarmed Black man, was running from police at the time of the shooting. Officers were responding to reports that Ross moments earlier fired several shots from a handgun. The proposed bill comes after a statewide investigative series by the Bay Area News Group and other news organizations published last fall that highlighted how officers can continue to work in law enforcement despite criminal convictions and other misconduct. The news organizations’ investigation found at least 80 officers convicted of crimes who still were working in California law enforcement. The series also focused on the Kern County city of McFarland, a troubled police force cited in a bill authored by state Assemblyman Rudy Salas, DBakersfield. AB12 99 would require law enforcement agencies to complete mis- conduct investigations of their officers and notify the state’s Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training so the findings can be reviewed by any department that next hires the police officer. According to the proposed legislation, misconduct includes complaints that likely would result in the termination, demotion or suspension of an officer for 30 days or more, if the charges were sustained. In the Central Valley town of McFarland, nearly 1 of every 5 officers hired over the past decade had either been sued or fired from another department for misconduct or convicted of a crime. Former Chief Scot Kimble was convicted earlier this year of forcing one of his officers to remodel the chief’s home and used public money to pay for the work. Kimble accepted a plea deal that forced him to resign from his new job as chief in the city of Arvin, but because he was convicted of a misdemeanor the state has no authority to prevent him from getting another law enforcement job, if somebody wants to hire him. “This bill will provide more background information to our local departments to make sure that they are not hiring bad officers,” Salas said in a statement, according to the Sacramento Bee. The bills are among several police reforms bills under consideration in Sacramento. Bradford also has authored SB203, which prevents police from interrogating juveniles up to age 17 without allowing the minors to first consult with legal counsel. State law currently only requires minors up to age 15 be given the opportunity to meet with lawyers before an interrogation. Sen. Nancy Skinner, DBerkeley, on Monday announced an effort to reform and broaden SB14 21, the landmark 2018 law granting public access to police disciplinary records of officers involved in shootings and other uses of force, as well as officers disciplined for sexual misconduct and dishonesty. Contact David DeBolt at 510-208-6453.State Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, speaks at a hearing at the Capitol in Sacramento on June 24. Bradford introduced SB73 1, a bill that would create a process for the state to decertify law enforcement officers convicted of certain crimes or be terminated for misconduct. RICH PEDRONCELLI – THE ASSOCIATED PRESSDocuments allege how South Bay jail deputy was caught smuggling meth PRISONSBy Robert Salonga email@example.com As investigators with the Santa Clara County Sheriff s Office worked to figure out who might be smuggling meth to inmates inside the Elmwood men’s jail, it was an inmate’s phone call that offered tangible clues that it was one of their own. “We knocked out a little CO all right; she’s going to bring something in,” the inmate reportedly said to an unknown man during the recorded call. “You know what I mean.” Mayra Rios, 35, of Antioch has been arrested on suspicion of smuggling methamphetamine into the Elmwood Correctional Facility in Milpitas on behalf of inmates. The description in that excerpt narrowed the scope of the probe to a single person, according to the Sheriff ‘s Office. By their calculation, the only female jail deputy who had contact with that inmate was Mayra Rios. From there, Rios was watched closely, and eventually, she was drawn out to the In-N-Out in Pleasanton – a rough midpoint between her home and the jail – by an undercover detective posing as a meth dealer. That burger joint encounter was Tuesday, and she was arrested soon after, according to an investigative summary that accompanied felony charges filed Thursday against Rios. Rios, who has been with the Sheriff’s Office for three years, was charged with four drug sales and distribution counts, two of which specifically address smuggling drugs into the jail and getting them to inmates. T he deputy, who has been placed on administrative leave from the Sheriff ‘s Office, was arraigned Thursday in a San Jose courtroom. She did not enter a plea and was appointed legal representation by the Independent Defense Counsel Office. Because of the county Superior Court’s COVID-19 emergency $0 bail schedule providing relief to misdemeanor and nonviolent felony defendants, Rios was granted supervised release. She is scheduled to return to court Aug. 2 7. After her arrest but before her arraignment, Rios refused requests for media interviews. Todd Kendrick, president of the Santa Clara County Correctional Peace Officers Association, said Thursday the union “is troubled by the accusations and is cooperating fully with the sheriff’s investigation. We strive everyday to create a drug free rehabilitative environment for all those incarcerated.” The April 2 inmate call that vaguely described a female correctional deputy as a culprit in meth making its way to inmates was part of a broader investigation predicated on the suspicion that drugs were being smuggled through an old gate on the eastern end of the jail property. By the end of the month, the Sheriff’s Office had grown confident it was Rios who was smuggling the meth, for “a sizable fee” from inmates, according to the investigative summary authored by Sgt. Michael Leslie. Leslie wrote that Rios was monitored on three days in mid-June; on some days she did not appear to act suspiciously, but on others she was seen darting in and out of the view of security cameras. On one of those surveillance days, she was seen “manipulating an object in her pockets just prior to entering the staff restroom,” followed by “an odd interaction” with an inmate performing custodial duties. According to Leslie’s account of the security camera footage, Rios unlocked the restroom for the inmate presumably to have him take out the trash, but then leaned inside – out of the camera’s view – followed by her leaning back outside and the inmate exiting the restroom. “It is at this point that I believe Mayra Rios transferred the narcotics package to the inmate worker responsible for picking up the trash around the facility,” Leslie wrote. That set off a chain of events that unfolded this week, highlighted by the meet around 11:45 a.m. Tuesday between Rios and the undercover detective in the parking lot of the Pleasanton restaurant. According to Leslie’s account, Rios walked over to the detective and took a box containing methamphetamine that, unknown to her, had been seized in a prior criminal case and was scheduled for destruction. Rios asked about the weight of the contents of the box, and the detective told her it was 8 ounces, Leslie wrote, “which Mayra Rios positively acknowledged.” Rios was arrested soon after. The crimes alleged in the drug possession and smuggling charges filed against Rios are dated July 7, suggesting that prosecutors’ case against her at the moment is predicated largely on what they believe she intended to do after she had acquired the drugs in the parking lot interaction. Leslie wrote that a search warrant served at Rios’ home, car and work locker located “additional evidence of her criminal conduct,”but found no immediate evidence she actually was using the drugs herself. Contact Robert Salonga at 408-920- 5002. Officers put on leave was once tasked with conducting bias training. “Who did he train, and how do we undo the damage?”she said. “How am I supposed to urge my community, that looks like me, to call this department?” Haidar points to the current scandal as evidence that not enough action was taken by the department if officers still felt comfortable spouting the bigoted rhetoric. “They enabled those to continue to say those kinds of racial slurs and the memes, because there were not repercussions when I came forward,” he said. “Now it’s time for him to move the needle and say, ‘This kind of thing came to light two-and-a-half years ago and we dropped the ball on it, and we have to make it right.’ ” Contact Robert Salonga at 408-920-500
We hold the key to a sinless police force
Exclusive: Lt. Col. James Zumwalt asks why ‘lone wolf’ reaction to Muslim terrorists doesn’t apply
It has been 2,000 years since a sinless man walked Planet Earth. Sadly, as a reward for his virtue, he was crucified. Yet today, we are blessed for, as author Ben Shapiro writes tongue-in-cheek about rioters and the protesters toppling statues memorializing our past history, “… we live in auspicious times. Those who have sinned will be cast down; those who are sinless will set new social standards for the rest of us. After all, we now live in the only generation ever to produce truly virtuous human beings.”
Maybe it has something to do with the dramatic and abnormal shift ofEarth’s magnetic field by which magnetic north has now crossed the International Dateline into Siberia. While doubtful, something clearly is amiss, negatively impacting human behavior to cause protesting millennials to believe their DNA contains a virtue gene denied every generation before them. Sadly, whatever the reason, it has also negatively impacted an older generation of liberals, robbing them of logic as evidenced by their failure to condemn violent protests, for defunding police departments and for making heroes of non-heroes such as the late George Floyd and national anthem-desecrating quarterback Colin Kaepernick.
The Fourth of July – a day normally celebrated by Americans recognizing the great freedoms with which we have been blessed – took a dark turn this year. Flags were burned; statues of men who set us on the path to a more perfect union were desecrated; students in high schools were even warned not to display American flags from their vehicles so as not to offend snowflakes.
July 4, 2019, in celebrating the 243rd anniversary of declaring our independence from England, all seemed to be well. Yet only a year later, on the occasion of our 244th anniversary, things have gone to hell in a handbasket. A discontent, revolutionary anti-American element of our population has been given an amplified voice by the media to denigrate our country. This comes in the aftermath of these revolutionaries seeking to make George Floyd, who tragically died in the custody of white police officers, a martyr for systemic racism. Floyd, a known criminal, arrested for committing another criminal act, resisted arrest and was high on drugs when taken into custody. He is hardly the kind of person of whom heroes are made but became a convenient tool for the revolutionaries to spotlight a rogue cop who was then projected as being typical of American law enforcement. Floyd’s martyr image was further promoted as he received more funeral services than did President John F. Kennedy or any politicalfigure in our history.
In the wake of Floyd’s death, we now hear the revolutionaries demanding police departments be defunded – a move that will not only return our cities to the days of the Wild West but will endanger far more minorities than those dying at the hands of rogue cops. Liberal politicians like New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio seek to accommodate the demand without giving the consequences of so acting much consideration.
There is a major consideration these revolutionaries and other intellectually lightweight liberals fail to grasp. Every institution in America, whether law enforcement, financial, entertainment, military, religious, political, etc. represents a microcosm of our society. What society begets, our institutions acquire. The only way one can expect a sinless police force is to have a sinless society from which its candidates are selected. And, if we really had such a society, there would be no need for law enforcement in the first place. Logic tells us this, yet these naive revolutionaries now wish to abolish law enforcement, which will only allow society’s sinful element to run roughshod over everyone else.
Revolutionaries want to ignore the fact society’s miscreants, unfortunately, are here to stay and will continue to be reflected in every line of work. We saw no better indicator of how quickly they rear their ugly heads when, recognizing law enforcement had been neutralized in Seattle’s short-lived CHAZ/CHOP autonomous zone, those in control embarked upon a reign of self-imposed terror.
Imagine if we took the approach now advocated toward police departments toward every institution tarnished by a rogue sinner. We would defund and thus cease to pay politicians, religious leaders, bankers, etc. Not only would we have a totally lawless society, we would have one devoid of any foundational structure capable of running the country.
In 1968, the Vietnam War sadly revealed a sinner within the ranks of our military. The My Lai massacre of nearly 500 unarmed Vietnamese civilians occurred because a rogue U.S. Army lieutenant, William Calley, ordered it to be done. My Lai tarnished the military’s reputation but, because most Americans recognized Calley was a “lone wolf,” there was no call to defund the military. Interestingly, today we recognize terrorist attacks by Muslim fanatics as being the acts of lone wolves but revolutionaries refuse to extend that same conceptualization to our own police force. If they seek to defund the police due to a rogue cop’s act, they should also seek the removal of mosques due to a rogue Muslim’s terrorist act.
The sinless man of two millennia ago made an astute observation. When an adulteress was brought to him by locals who queried whether she should be stoned to death as the Law of Moses mandated, Jesus said, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” Similarly, revolutionaries who cannot show us any institution without sin should not be demanding our police departments be defunded.
The key to a sinless police force is having a sinless society from which to select membership. Once attained, then we can discuss defunding!
A group of San Jose police officers are pictured in this file photo. Photo by Mauricio La Plante. San Jose police killings leave taxpayers footing a ‘blank check’
For the families of more than a dozen people killed by San Jose police since 2003, the cost of losing a life is immeasurable. But the financial cost of police killings in San Jose lies on the shoulders of taxpayers.
A public records request from San José Spotlight revealed police killings have cost the city’s taxpayers nearly $7 million. The records from the San Jose Police Department show compensation for the deaths of 17 people killed by officers since 2003, resulting in five hefty settlements.
Democrat Senator tells police not to arrest vandals – turns out she didn’t have authority to do that
The South First Street Business District around 1935!
“Title: South First Street Business District. Date: 1935-1940. Looking north up South First
from the corner of San Antonio Street (now Paseo de San Antonio)” The street is crowded
with automobiles. On the bottom left the bus to Willow Glen waits while a woman crosses
the street. The tall building in the background is the Bank of Italy. On the left the partially
seen tall yellow building topped with a sign is the Garden City Bank. Today, the former
Pavilion shops would be on the right and the Fairmont Hotel on the left.”
Son, brother, husband, father, grandfather–child of God. Ron Daly left his earthly home to join his Father in Heaven. Family, friends, and religion are important to him so please leave memories and thoughts. Ron believes that death is part of life and life continues on eternally.